NPR’s Scott Detrow talks with presidential historian Barbara Perry about how President Trump’s wartime rhetoric fits into the history of the presidency.
SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
From four score and seven years ago to a day that will live in infamy, some of the most memorable speeches in American history have been delivered in wartime. Presidents have tried to unify the country, explain their strategy or make a moral case for war. Now, when it comes to speeches, President Trump has never claimed to be Lincoln or Roosevelt. Here he is this week previewing his primetime address to the nation.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Tonight I’m making a little speech at 9 o’clock. And basically, I’m going to tell everybody how great I am.
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TRUMP: What a great job I’ve done. What a phenomenal job. What a phenomenal job I’ve done.
DETROW: We wanted to take a closer look at how Trump’s wartime communication fits into the history of the presidency and why that really matters. And for that, I am joined by Barbara Perry. She’s the co-chair of the Presidential Oral History Program at the University of Virginia’s Miller Center.
Welcome back to the program.
BARBARA PERRY: Great to be with you, Scott.
DETROW: You know, we could start a lot of different places, but one thing that stood out to me is just that he really kind of appears to be reveling in the destruction and the violence brought by military action. You can hear that in this speech just from the other day.
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TRUMP: Their Air Force is dead, totally completely dead. It’s out of business. No planes left at all. Their antiaircraft and communications capabilities are totally dismantled and dead. And their leaders are all dead. Other than that, I think they’re doing quite well.
DETROW: I mean, Barbara, how does that compare to other presidents in recent history?
PERRY: Well, Scott, like almost everything that Donald Trump did in the first term – and certainly in the second – it’s unprecedented. And that’s how he got to be president two times. And that is because he exaggerates. He uses, I’ll call it, middle school rhetoric. I’m the best, I’m the greatest. There’s this braggadocio that you do not see in other presidents because other presidents want to be viewed as serious, as statesmanlike, with the weight of the world on their shoulders as they send the sons and daughters of Americans in uniform into harm’s way.
DETROW: What are the through lines about how other presidents have thought about what to communicate and how often to communicate when it comes to war?
PERRY: Well, let’s take the second first, and that is how often to communicate. There is a fine line – and most presidents have walked it – between keeping the American people informed and being overexposed. And clearly, Donald Trump doesn’t worry about that because he speaks many times throughout the day, which also, I think, then lowers the impact of an important speech as in the primetime speech this week because people, I think, begin to tune out, or they get tired of it, or because he has this propensity to exaggerate with superlatives and – let’s face it – prevaricate, people begin to lose faith and confidence in what the person is saying, and that’s both at home and abroad.
DETROW: I want to talk about one other important aspect of this, and this is the way that presidents talk about soldiers who have lost their lives. Here’s something that President Trump said recently.
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TRUMP: Sadly, there will likely be more before it ends. That’s the way it is. Likely be more – but we’ll do everything possible where that won’t be the case.
DETROW: I think the, that’s the way it is, really struck a lot of people. How have other presidents handled this hard idea of soldiers dying due to orders that they gave?
PERRY: Well, I will use the example of President George W. Bush, who would go frequently to Walter Reed Hospital to see the wounded warriors. And so I think that and then someone like Ronald Reagan, talking about the bombing of the barracks by terrorists in Beirut in 1983.
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RONALD REAGAN: I know there are no words that can express our sorrow and grief over the loss of those splendid young men.
PERRY: He just could pick the right phrase to comfort people and to be serious as the commander in chief.
DETROW: You know, I’m going to take a skeptical view of this for a moment. You know, the rhetoric has been lofty and soaring, and many times, America’s fighting for democracy. If you’re on the other side of that, if a missile is being shot into your community, if troops are invading your community, does it matter what the rhetoric of the U.S. president is, whether this is framed in lofty goals or in crude violent goals?
PERRY: Probably not because humans are human, and if they’re being attacked by boots on the ground or from the air, they’re just trying to survive. But it might make a difference for what Trump had hoped would happen, and that is that those who want democracy and liberalization in Iran might have felt better if Trump continued to speak to them in, again, more statesmanlike formal terms.
DETROW: Is there a moment in recent history that stands out to you of a president kind of taking the opposite approach and trying to frame American military intervention in a positive way?
PERRY: Absolutely, and it would be the first Bush, George H.W. Bush, at the end of the First Gulf War. When he spoke to Congress at the end of the war, he told an anecdote.
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GEORGE H W BUSH: I’m sure that many of you saw on the television the unforgettable scene of four terrified Iraqi soldiers surrendering.
PERRY: And you can actually watch the video that he’s speaking about. And obviously, our guys have got the weaponry, and they’re saying, it’s OK. You know, you’re safe. It’s going to be all right.
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BUSH: That scene says a lot about America, a lot about who we are. Americans are a caring people. We are a good people.
PERRY: And I think that not only because he was a warrior himself, a World War II hero, almost lost his life and knew how to present himself as president of the United States, I dare anyone to watch that and not have a little tear come to their eye.
DETROW: That is Barbara Perry, the co-chair of the Presidential Oral History Program at the University of Virginia’s Miller Center. Thank you so much.
PERRY: Thank you, Scott.
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