Carrie Joy Grimes wants you to know you’re not going to get rich – or even out of debt – just by practicing “latte celibacy”. She decries the online “shame gurus” who promote the financial equivalent of crash diets, and believes “the economy’s just become harder and harder for everyone to navigate.”
Still, she argues, there are tools and tricks that can help many people save money and secure a slice of the American dream. But you have to know where to find them – and that’s where she comes in.
Grimes is the author of The Joy of Money: How to Do More With and Feel Better About Your Money – No Matter How Much You Have, out 19 May. A former union organizer who once struggled with credit card debt and “scraped [her] way into the middle class”, says she wrote her book for people who, like her, grew up without money, made mistakes and assumed that meant they were “bad with money”. She says putting aside that shame can be a powerful first step to taking control of your finances.
“There’s no magic app or program that can fix everything happening with prices and the economy,” says Grimes, who in 2020 founded WorkMoney, a nonprofit that offers budgeting tips and information on programs that cut everyday expenses. “But there are some underutilized tools and programs that can keep dollars in our pockets.”
Her book offers hard-boiled advice like how to calculate what you’ll need to retire, a worksheet on whether you should buy vs rent (buying is not for everyone, she emphasizes), and tips on lowering credit card payments. But unlike many personal finance books, hers ends with a call for working people to organize for “an economy that works for us – a stronger, more functional capitalism”.
Grimes spoke with the Guardian about why you should negotiate with your bank, her thrifty Instacart hack – and what everyone should have in their financial “go-bag”.
This interview below was edited for clarity and length.
You launched WorkMoney during Covid to connect people with resources that could help them pay their bills. What are some programs or tools more people should know about?
Make sure to take advantage of employer flexible spending accounts for healthcare and childcare that have tax benefits and annual “use it or lose it” rules. If your household income is under roughly $80,000 to $90,000, you may also qualify for reduced cost childcare. Start at childcare.gov to find what’s available in your state.
Always ask your pharmacist if the drug manufacturer has a discount program, or if a discount card like GoodRx or SingleCare beats your copay cost.
If you’re eligible, claim your earned income tax credit [a refundable federal tax credit for low- to moderate-income working individuals and families]. The average credit is nearly $3,000, and the IRS estimates 1 in 4 eligible working people don’t claim it.
You can also negotiate your bills and payment plans.
You often tell people to negotiate fees, interest rates and payment options, with credit card lenders, the IRS, banks and even with their bosses. Most people don’t know they can do that.
Yes. For example, if you got a big tax bill you can’t pay right away, take a deep breath, pick up the phone – which I know no one likes to do any more – and call the IRS. You can negotiate around the fee and interest rate they’ll charge you. They have an entire department of people who want to help you figure out how to give them your money.
I think money is such a difficult topic for so many of us, because we’re raised in ways where it’s not talked about. When I left my home in my teens, I didn’t know about money and I made a bunch of mistakes early on and I just felt deeply ashamed.
Calling someone to negotiate a lower interest rate, or to advocate for yourself requires some belief that you think that’s appropriate, that you have earned the right to want better and to ask for better, and to demand better.
You criticize ‘credit card debt shamers’, influencers who specialize in ‘tough love’ advice and drastic bare-bones budgets.
I call them the shame gurus. Boy, does that drive me crazy. It reinforces a tape [people in debt] have in their own head, which is that they are bad at money.
When folks choose extreme new money habits, like only eating rice and beans, it’s kind of like a crash diet. It doesn’t stick. Really changing money habits in the long-term happens when somebody actually changes their relationship to themselves and their money.
One of the behaviors I’ve seen help people succeed at changing their money habits, which is gonna sound a little counterintuitive, is really understanding what’s the good thing you get to do with your money in that month.
You were a labor organizer with the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), the massive union that represents healthcare and food services workers, and has pushed to raise the minimum wage. How does a former labor organizer end up writing a personal finance book?
I was a union organizer for 20 years. I realized early on in my career that there were two problems: one is that most people didn’t have enough money. And the other was that when they did have any money, most people didn’t know what to do with it to make more of it.
I wanted to give people real tools that aren’t for people with a bunch of disposable income or who are already rich – how to budget, how to trim your bills and figure out what investments suit you.
I wrote the book that I wished I’d had when I was figuring out money, and the book that I want my daughter to have as she becomes an adult: I want her to know that anyone can learn to be good at money, that everyone will make a money mistake and that it is important to understand her feelings about money if she wants to make more of it.
Can you expand on that?
I like to say money is math plus feelings. And the math is usually pretty understandable. If you can add and subtract, you can generally figure out the right thing to do here.
But the economy is not exactly an easy thing to navigate. I think folks have a choice individually, which is either to say “Gosh, the system is really tough to navigate. I’m doing my best, but it’s really hard” or “I’m just really bad at money.”
It is easier to assume that a singular person is the problem, but once I realized that I could be good at money, and that the system was pretty hostile to that, it’s a very different frame of mind.
What’s the worst piece of money advice you’ve ever been given?
I was told not to take a 401k match by my boss, and instead to put that money into buying some particular individual stock. I didn’t take the advice, because I was too intimidated to buy stocks – not because I knew it was bad advice at the time.
To be very clear: if you have a 401K and you have a match, absolutely do that. It’s free money.
WorkMoney highlights food banks and federal programs to cut high grocery prices. What do you recommend for people who don’t qualify or can’t access those?
The obvious trick is Costco. Buy in bulk where things are cheaper. Look for deals, and stock up on non-perishables. I use Instacart – not to buy things and have it come to my house, because I’m too cheap for that – but I have a standard set of staples that I price check and that determines where I shop in person.
What should households feeling squeezed right now do to prepare if costs keep going up or the job market gets worse?
First, figure out your “minimum viable number” – that’s your mortgage, your rent, your food costs, transportation, utilities. The goal is to have three to six months of that minimum monthly amount saved up somewhere. You should have [an additional] $1,000 in a savings account that you can get to fast, something pretty liquid.
Then, aggressively pay down your credit card debt. Call your credit card company to try to negotiate a lower APR or lower balance. If you’re already missing the minimum payment call the National Foundation for Credit Counseling, a not-for-profit credit counselor that can walk you through options from a debt repayment plan to bankruptcy.
Last, [pack] your financial “go bag” – know where you’re going to go to file an unemployment claim and how to apply for Snap and Medicaid. Don’t let the government keep your money. If you have worked a day in your life, or you’ve shopped and bought things, or paid taxes, this is your money.
How do you define money success for yourself?
What I want for my money is to go to sleep at night knowing I’m OK, and to believe that when I wake up, I’m probably gonna be OK. I’m deeply familiar with money anxiety and being working poor, and then scraping my way into the middle class. I mostly just want the feeling of no worry and ease.
There are some tangibles: my daughter is in college, and I don’t want her to have any student debt. I want to be able to retire, and I want to be able to go and see her wherever she is.
Some day, I want to have a pony. But my husband is not a fan of horses, so that one’s under review. My money goal now is “Are my beloveds all solid?”
Four key takeaways
1 Don’t assume you’re “bad at money” just because you don’t have a lot of it or have gotten into debt.
2 Pick up the phone to negotiate your bills and payment plans.
3 If your employer offers to match your 401K contributions, do it. It’s free money.
4 When facing job insecurity, know where you’re going to go to file an unemployment claim and how to apply for Snap and Medicaid. If you have worked a day in your life or paid taxes, this is your money.
